Lyn Brown

Like many hon. Members, I fully accept the principles behind the Bill. There is absolutely no place in today's society, which wants to call itself decent, for allowing discrimination of any kind to continue unchallenged. The promotion of equal opportunities at work and in the community and the elimination of discrimination on the grounds of race, gender, sexuality, disability, age or creed should be two of our core aims—the core aims of government and all those who are party to it. There is considerable evidence from all quarters—the Commission for Racial Equality, the Equal Opportunities Commission, the Disability Rights Commission, academics, the trade union movement, and the Government's own research—to show there is still an awful lot to do to overcome discrimination.

Evidence shows the slow progress that we have managed to achieve so far, with the gap between white and non-white participation in employment and with higher unemployment rates and associated links to deprivation. Indeed, my constituency has the lowest employment rate in the country. Even some 30 years after the Equal Pay Act 1970, the pay gap between men and women still stands at 18 per cent. and even more for those who are part-time and undertaking a caring responsibility. Of course that is why the Prime Minister recognised the need to establish the women and work commission, which is examining the barriers that women face at work, in training opportunities and because of their often less-than-equal pay compared with male comrades. The fact that disabled people have for so long faced not just physical but social and cultural barriers has been recognised in legislation, which now needs the teeth to make it work. Age discrimination continues, whether against the young or the more mature. All such discrimination affects people not just at the personal level, but also in their contribution to the economy and in their interaction with society at large.

It is shameful that, in the 21st century, we still have discrimination in the workplace—whether unconscious or blatant—from colleagues and employers, or caused by how the organisational structures operate, but those problems are known and action is being taken. Progress may be slow, but it is definitely speeding up now. Many employers are exemplary and ensure that their structures, policies and procedures support equality at work and leave little or no room for discrimination. When discrimination is found, they often have good processes to deal with it. But there are also many employers who, left to themselves, would do little or nothing to ensure that discrimination does not occur. In fact, some of them do not even understand, or make an effort to understand, that discrimination even exists in their workplaces or that they have a responsibility to eradicate it.

There is no doubt that current discrimination legislation is complex, potentially costly and time-consuming. It is confusing and inconsistent, and it relies on those suffering discrimination to take the responsibility for tackling that discrimination after the event, rather than encouraging organisations to prevent the possibility of discrimination in the first place. The only exception is the duty on public sector bodies to promote race equality, which I hope will soon be joined by a duty to promote sexual and disability equality. But let us be clear that any burdens are not just on employers but on workers, who have often felt strongly enough, or been forced by financial difficulties, to overcome the barriers that they face to seek some form of redress, who have often overcome stressful processes before they get to tribunal in taking their concerns through internal grievance procedures, and who almost definitely did not set out to bring themselves to what, in effect, is a courtroom to be quizzed in what is becoming an increasingly difficult and litigious way, and who still face a comparatively low success rate at tribunals.

Yes, there are increases in the number of discrimination cases being registered, but mainly in the areas of sex discrimination and equal pay. There is a reason for that. Women are becoming increasingly aware that unequal pay for equal value is against the law, so they are rightly claiming their due. It is not easy for others who face discrimination. They still face low success rates, because it is difficult to prove not only that a worker has suffered detriment, but that the detriment was because of the discrimination. We should also realise that the rising number of cases still reflects only a fraction of those employed and those who experience difficulties at work, but do not take a case to a tribunal.

I can see why colleagues are drawn to the Bill. The system is not easy to understand and some people have to contend with it on their own. With the diminishment of collective rights over the 1980s and 1990s, 70 per cent. of today's employees do not have the support of a trade union, which means that the employees who are most likely to be dismissed or suffer unfairness at work are least likely to have the support at an employment tribunal. Therefore bringing forward proposals that appear to support individuals in their claims at tribunals seems just and fair. 
 
I do not support our hon. Friends who suggest that we will be encouraging a compensation culture. After all, if no wrongs have been wrought, there will be nothing to be compensated for. There may be fears that increasing numbers of cases are being brought by employees wishing to make money from the system, but these fears are hardly borne out by the amounts generally awarded in costs. Employers should look to themselves to institute good practices and to avoid the process itself.

Mr. Forth:

 I am bit worried about the phrase that the hon. Lady has just used. She said that if no compensation is paid, that is all right. Surely the whole point about the phrase the "compensation culture" and the debate about the Bill is that, in encouraging people excessively to make claims, to lay blame or to seek compensation even if they fail, we add burdens to the judicial process, the business community and so on. That is the problem on which we must remain focused. Her Government, her Prime Minister and her Chancellor of the Exchequer repeat over and over again the need for us to remain competitive. If we do not keep a close eye on this sort of thing, it will run counter to that aim.

Lyn Brown:

 I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that point. The point that I am attempting to make—and perhaps have made badly—is that if one has suffered a wrong, one deserves compensation for the wrong that has been wrought. I accept that we need to be competitive in business, but I also believe that one of the things that we have not covered today is the fact that people who have been wronged deserve compensation. We need to find a way of ensuring that they receive that compensation. I am sure that Members on both sides accept that there were wrongs in the cases that my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Ms Johnson) described. In such cases, compensation needs to be paid.

There have been suggestions in the debate that those suffering discrimination do not deserve representation, advice or assistance and that this Bill is political correctness gone mad. Again, I do not subscribe to that belief. I have seen references in the media to vexatious claims, but such assumptions are a reflection of attitude, not fact.

I do not believe, however, that the Bill is the right way forward. It is built on the supposition that, with legal aid not available to workers in employment tribunals, workers are left with little support outside themselves. That is just not the case. Whereas there is no provision of financial help for representation in employment tribunals, there is support from a number of bodies—the equality commissions, legal advice services and no win, no fee lawyers—even though there are clearly difficulties with such avenues.

The role of ACAS in dispute resolution in workplace processes cannot be ignored, and I have used its services successfully on a number of occasions and, in particular, in support of a small business in my constituency. What this Bill intends to do is create another body to help fund discrimination legal cases. This would be in addition to the intended new single equality body, the new commission for equality and human rights whose remit includes funding strategic cases and contributing to the simplification of discrimination law. The possibility for confusion would be obvious, because the tribunal representation and assistance board would cut across beneficial strategic planning. Increasing funding for both current and new equality bodies would be better than establishing a new board at this time. It would also be better to support the legal aid service. I concur wholeheartedly with the principle behind the Bill—the protection of the vulnerable at work—but I cannot agree with the remedy that it offers.